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How Games Like Chicory and Celeste Can Help Us with Mark Flynn (Safe Space Podcast Season 1 Episode 15)

Episode 15 is here, and Rosie chats to the lovely Mark Flynn about all things content creation with a generous sprinkle of wholesome games.

In this episode, Rosie is joined by Mark Flynn, PR & Community Manager at Numskull Games, PR and Marketing Manager at Lost In Cult as well as a content creator on YouTube!

Mark delves into his passions about mental health, his current projects, and his journey into the games industry. We talk about Hoa; a delightful Ghibli-style puzzle-platformer, Chicory; a painting adventure indie, and Celeste; a challenging side-scrolling platformer with mental health themes.

We cover some of the challenges surrounding content creation, especially during Covid-19 times, and what we do to take care of ourselves when these issues arise.



Mark’s Twitter

Mark’s YouTube

Numskull Games

Lost in Cult




Skills utilised:

Mindfulness and Gaming: Unlikely but Wonderful Companions by Ben Huxley

Mindfulness isn’t synonymous with meditation; with sitting on a cushion with your eyes closed, focusing on your breath, or chanting a mantra. They are good ways to practice, but mindfulness as a whole is more than that.

It is a means of living all aspects of your life with more clarity and awareness. According to the NHS website, mindfulness means “knowing directly what is going on inside and outside ourselves, moment by moment.” This awareness can transform our relationship with our daily activities quite profoundly; from washing the dishes, to the long commute to work, to the time we spend playing video games.

The opposite of mindfulness is mindlessness – our lives set to autopilot, going through the motions (or lack thereof) while we worry about tomorrow or ruminate on yesterday’s embarrassing conversation. In this state, we give little attention to what is in front of us. The following scenario may sound familiar: you arrive home, head swimming with worries and regrets. You decide to play a game, and sit down with the aim of having a distracting, fun, challenging, or satisfying time. Yet none of those words describe your experience. Perhaps you keep losing, over and over again, in the same way, as your teeth grit. Or maybe you find yourself on a long and boring side quest, becoming restless and bored at the lack of stimulation. There’s even a chance that you’ll finish gaming, get into bed, and have very little memory of what just occurred.

The blank in your memory can be explained quite easily. It’s because you weren’t really there; you were in your head the entire time, captured by thought. It happens in other activities too. How often do you read a page (or three) of a book, before realising that you haven’t actually been reading at all? Or put on a song, hoping to be soothed by the lyrics, rhythm, and melody – only to realise the song has finished and you weren’t listening? This isn’t to shame my fellow daydreamers (if it’s any consolation, I’m sure I read somewhere that it’s a sign of intelligence), but to let you know that with mindfulness we can avoid being hijacked against our will, and only have a good long think when we want to – on our terms.

It’s hard to express this without sounding hackneyed, but for many of us gaming is more than a hobby. It’s time with our favourite characters, in our favourite worlds, with stories, music, and art that touch the heart. It’s also friendship, community, escape, distraction, challenge, and fulfilment. Are there any better reasons to be more present and mindful as we game?

There are, in fact, some games that encourage us to be mindful. 2018’s Celeste is one such game. Celeste actively encourages us to fail in order to learn. It differs from the norm, where dying feels like punishment. In a meta sort of way, the game encourages us to take deep breaths and visualise a feather floating on our exhalations when the pressure gets too much. This is because the protagonist – Madeline – suffers from panic attacks, and a side character teaches her this technique to deal with them. It encourages us to stop, think, and evaluate the situation, rather than diving in for the hundredth time to do exactly the same thing. Celeste is a tricky game, too, so playing mindlessly isn’t an option. The gameplay is simple; run, jump, dash, climb – but timing and precision are everything.

We shouldn’t reserve our presence of mind for tricky games like Celeste, however. If we want to truly appreciate the game in front of us – be it a battle royale or a visual novel – we should always aim to be present. When we’re on autopilot, we’ll find ourselves making the same mistakes again and again. We also find ourselves missing out on the potential beauty in front of us.

Much like missing a song or skipping the pages of a book, it’s easy to zone out during a particularly easy, or “boring”, part of a game. Perhaps you’re grinding in an RPG, hacking away at unchallenging monsters as a means to an end – telling yourself you’ll enjoy this game as soon as you’ve reached level fifty. Or maybe you’re partaking in a side quest in which you have to walk for an hour to, say, deliver a package to the next town. You grow impatient waiting for the fun to return, and eventually zone out and return to autopilot. The game doesn’t require your full attention, anyway.

In zoning out, however – be that daydreaming or having one eye on social media – we’re arguably missing the best parts of the game. Isn’t the whole point of an RPG to increase and develop the stats of your character? If you find yourself grinding in a laborious and repetitive manner, ask yourself if there’s a more interesting way to do this. Are there tougher enemies that, realistically, you could face? Or are you focusing solely on strength, when there may be a more interesting stat to work on? When we stop and think, better options become available – the easy choice is rarely the most fulfilling.

There is a lot to be said for “boring side quests”, too. Hideo Kojima’s mind-bending Death Stranding has been branded a “walking simulator” by players and critics alike. The protagonist is a deliveryman in a post-apocalyptic America, so it shouldn’t be a surprise that there’s little action and an abundance of travel – but this isn’t a bad thing. Walking or driving from A to B in Death Stranding can be an exhilarating experience if we remain focused, aware, and appreciative. The developers have done a fantastic job of creating such a world, and with this in mind as we play, so much more beauty and awe is revealed to us. I noticed that a lot of the game’s scenery reminded me of the Snowdonia mountains in North Wales, where I often walked in my youth. I know that this nostalgic revelation wouldn’t have come to me if I hadn’t been fully immersed in the game.

Boredom is an emotion that we have to catch first, however, before we realise it’s colouring our experience. The same can be said of stress and frustration. There will be times in which we have these emotions before we boot up a game, and our session is negatively affected. Mindfulness can help with this, too. If we realise that we’re bored or restless before we start a long and eventless walk in a game, we can note and acknowledge this – we can ask ourselves if the game is truly boring, or are we projecting our boredom? The same can be said of stress and frustration. Is it really such a straining game, or was there already a build-up of pressure in your chest?

When we train ourselves to be mindful, it flows into every aspect of our lives. Not only does it bring clarity to experiencing games, but also to our reading habits, appreciating music, commuting to work, washing the dishes, conversing with loved ones, managing your money, studying, exercising. When we’re more mindful – when we’re out of our heads and experiencing the present as fully as possible – we find beauty and joy in the most unexpected of places. It can be a challenging enterprise, but there are few things more worthwhile.

Ben’s Muckrack

Ben is a freelance writer based in North Wales. He believes games are one of the most important and undervalued art forms, and aims to share their value to as many people as possible.


Skills utilised:

Games that tackle mental health awareness head-on!

Anyone who’s played video games for any significant length of time knows mental health and its many related struggles are not a topic the medium has broached very often.

Even as storytelling and character development rose to prominence as important factors in a video game’s presentation during the 16- and 32-bit generations, mental health awareness was not something game developers were particularly and specifically concerned with promoting, and who can blame them? Even today in the year 2019, mental health issues are still stigmatized in many societies as personal flaws one should hide and be ashamed of, to say nothing of the ’80s and ’90s and their even more regressive views of the topic. Final Fantasy VI‘s Terra Branford outwardly and realistically struggled with depression, sure, but it wasn’t examined very deeply as a topic beyond that depiction and the game certainly wasn’t concerned with whether its players could relate to it.

Fortunately, with the slow but sure rise of indie games and the past couple console generations affording them vastly increased visibility — most recently and especially on the Nintendo Switch — we have also begun to see a rise in the number of gaming experiences anchored around the topic of mental health, some of them inspired by the developers’ own struggles.

On that note, I have chosen one of the very best mental health-focused games to spotlight for you here in the hopes that confronting mental illness in the context of a familiar, comfortable medium might assist you in grappling with your own struggles. Mental health is one of the ultimate “silent killers” of our generation, and experiencing firsthand the fact that there are others who can not only relate to these struggles but express them in video game form can be incredibly comforting. So without further ado…

Developed and published by Matt Makes Games
Available now on Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 4, Xbox One, and PC/Mac/Linux via Steam for $19.99

A treasure of a game you may have heard of by now, Celeste follows the journey of a young woman named Madeline as she attempts to climb the intimidatingly towering and treacherous Celeste Mountain. This particular mountain is known for the strange phenomena that would-be climbers experience during their ascent, but those mysteries are ultimately not what Celeste is really about. We soon learn that the mountain is mostly a metaphor for Madeline’s internal struggles with depression and especially anxiety.

From the beginning, there is no doubt that Madeline is a troubled individual. Lost and adrift in life and without hope for the future, Madeline challenges the mountain because she must. Something in her life needs to change, but she doesn’t know what. She has hit a dead end, a slump from which she has not been able to recover. We can see that life has taken its toll on Madeline, and she just needs to prove to herself that she can achieve something of personal significance.

And so we, the players, step into her shoes as we attempt to guide her up the mountain. But as those of us who struggle with depression and anxiety — I’m raising my hand here — all know, it’s never that simple. Madeline will struggle, and she will fail, and she will lose all hope more than once along the way — and, likely, so will you. Celeste is a pixel-precise 2D platformer that starts off fairly challenging and only increases in difficulty from there, becoming more and more oppressively difficult the closer Madeline gets to the summit.

That’s on purpose. The player, through their gameplay struggles, is meant to relate to Madeline’s internal turmoil as she fights both the external (the mountain) and the internal (her own vicious demons) on her metaphorical journey to Celeste’s peak. The result is an emotional rollercoaster of a game that isn’t afraid to confront mental health issues directly and loudly, a game that bravely acknowledges that mental illness is not a one-and-done, now-I’m-cured affliction, a game that dwells not on defeating your personal demons in some metaphysical final boss battle, but learning to reckon with and accept them.

We never quite learn the full story behind Madeline’s life to date and what experiences have left her so broken, but the story offers just enough insight that these details can at least be somewhat inferred. But really, Madeline’s past experiences aren’t the point anyway. Whatever has happened to her has led her here, to this mountain, grappling with severe depression and anxiety without a clear purpose in life, and Celeste is far more interested in Madeline’s journey to understanding and healing than the trauma that drove her to embark on her desperate ascent.

As I mentioned earlier, Celeste is a difficult game; make no mistake about that. It’s meant to be challenging, often imposingly so. But it’s also meant to be accessible, and the game excels at both. While you’ll likely die hundreds (and hundreds) of times, respawns are instant and on the spot, with no progress lost and no time wasted. Celeste also includes an “Assist Mode” for less skilled players, or for those only interested in experiencing Madeline’s journey without the stress of conquering a difficult platformer, and that is an objectively good thing. Games should be accessible to as wide an audience as possible, especially games exploring a subject as important, difficult, and complex as mental illness!

But I would implore those of you who do have the skills, but perhaps not the patience, to stick with Celeste on its default difficulty level to hang in there, not to earn some badge of gaming honor but because one of Celeste‘s most significant triumphs is how seamlessly and meaningfully the game manages to blend the player’s struggles with Madeline’s. The two always exist in parallel, and that direct relation is one of the characteristics that makes Celeste so special and triumphant.

Without spoiling too much, at one point we learn that Madeline is prone to panic attacks, and the way Celeste perfectly and terrifyingly recreates in a gaming context what it’s like to experience a real-life panic attack is one of the game’s most eye-opening and genuinely effective moments. In fact, I even had to take a pause and gather myself following that sequence because it’s just so raw for those of us who have had to reckon with panic attacks (again, raising my hand here).

Madeline might be one of the most relatable video game protagonists of all time, especially for those who struggle with mental illness.

Celeste is a narrative and thematic masterpiece that really should be played by everyone, but is absolutely essential for those who struggle with mental illness. Instead of telling a relatable story and shining a spotlight on an incredibly important issue despite being a video game, Celeste uses gaming’s unique advantages as a medium to inform and enhance these aspects, cementing this title’s legacy as a modern classic. It also just happens to be a really great video game, and if you end up crushing hard enough on Celeste‘s satisfyingly precise platforming gameplay to keep going beyond the story’s conclusion, there are plenty of optional, ultra-hard objectives to take on like collecting every last strawberry in each level and conquering the brutally difficult “B-Side” and “C-Side” stages.

Even among other games that focus on mental illness, Celeste stands apart as a true achievement in video game storytelling and irrefutably proves that, as a medium, video games are more than capable of tackling difficult real-life problems in meaningful, thoughtful ways.


Now, if you’ve already played Celeste or have tried it and decided it’s not your cup of tea, fear not! Especially these days, you’d be surprised how many other games there are that bravely and successfully tackle different aspects of mental illness. While I don’t have the time or space here to cover them in-depth like I did Celeste, I can certainly point you in the direction of several strong choices, including Night in the WoodsGrisHellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice (trigger warning for those who experience psychosis, also lots of violent graphical content), Child of Light, and Zarvot (though this one is more open to interpretation).

In closing, I hope any and/or all of the above-mentioned games shine some light on your own silent mental health struggles and help empower you, even in some small way, to understand and reckon with them!


Read more by checking out our Games and Apps page!

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